Aug 28 18:35:49 <octav1a> I am at 3+ hrs of trying to debug a simple webgl function, I think I need a break
Aug 28 18:36:21 <octav1a> ohhey Redwolf
Aug 28 18:41:51 <Agris> Webgl shouldn't exist
Aug 28 18:42:04 <Agris> And you shouldnt use it
Aug 28 18:42:22 <cheapie> Here we go again...
Aug 28 18:43:11 <Agris> There is absolutely zero good reason for a web browser to also be a video game engine
Aug 28 18:43:20 <Agris> Or 3d modeler
Aug 28 18:43:20 <octav1a> Ah NeEd MuH GPU aCcElErAtIoN!!!!
Aug 28 18:43:25 <cheapie> People can use whatever software they want, you don't have to like it.
Aug 28 18:43:31 <Agris> Make a native program
Aug 28 18:43:41 <Agris> No they can't cheapie
Aug 28 18:43:50 <Agris> Because webgl is to recklessly complex
Aug 28 18:43:58 <Agris> There's only one real working implementation of it
Aug 28 18:43:58 <cheapie> Sure they can, you're not in charge of everyone else's computer or what they can run on it.
Aug 28 18:44:01 <octav1a> I am a full stack dev, I can't do native for that :p
Aug 28 18:44:03 <Agris> Google chrome
Aug 28 18:44:31 <Agris> So it's use google chrome or get fucked when a developer decides to use whatwg peudostandards
Aug 28 18:45:17 <Agris> https://anybrowser.org/campaign/
Aug 28 18:45:43 <octav1a> doing rasterization stuff on the cpu is way too slow my dude, the client would be dead by the time its useful D:
Aug 28 18:45:53 <Agris> And firefox is just chrome now anyways
Aug 28 18:46:17 <Agris> oct4v1a: that's not my point
Aug 28 18:46:23 <Agris> You can use opengl
Aug 28 18:46:27 <Agris> But with a program
Aug 28 18:46:38 <Agris> Not a shimmy it into a web browser
Aug 28 18:46:57 <Agris> I'm not against gpu acceleration
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Aug 28 18:47:17 <Agris> I'm against using a web browser for things that are out of scope for a web browser
Aug 28 18:47:18 <octav1a> nooo
Aug 28 18:47:24 <octav1a> we scared him off :<
Aug 28 18:47:38 <Agris> You like libsdl?
Aug 28 18:47:46 * nkeck72 makes octav1a play Half Life in software mode
Aug 28 18:48:07 * octav1a invests in a ryzen....
Aug 28 18:48:12 * Wolfi (~Wolfi@ip4-188-74-6-86.dyn.netcomnetz.de) has joined
Aug 28 18:48:58 <Agris> octav1a: check out https://suricrasia.online/demoscene/ if you don't know how to make graphical programs
Aug 28 18:49:44 <Agris> And https://www.libsdl.org/ has good documentation
Aug 28 18:49:46 <octav1a> As I mentioned, I create webapps, so that's not an option for this project, at least.
Aug 28 18:50:50 <octav1a> Also, while I won't say for or against it, people expect more and more things to work in browsers over the past decade, so that is the trend I follow
Aug 28 18:50:53 <nkeck72> just write a new js framework for it, that's unfortunately what a lot of developers seem to like to do :<
Aug 28 18:50:54 <Agris> Your project is going to turn out unreliable, bloated, and is not going to have any longevity at all. It's also going to suck of gigabytes of ram and rev up cpu cores if you decide to build graphics in a web browser
Aug 28 18:51:24 <Agris> Also it's going to require a Faustian bargain with Google for anybody that wants to use it
Aug 28 18:52:33 <nkeck72> makes the js landscape a huge pain to deal with
Aug 28 18:52:44 <Agris> nkeck72: oh yeah. Don't learn how to do anything proper ever. Just write a js framework for a js framework for a js framework for a js framework for a js framework for a js framework for a js framework for a js framework for a js framework for a js framework for a js framework
Aug 28 18:53:10 <Agris> It's that kind of thinking that has destroyed the web
Aug 28 18:53:18 <Agris> Turned it into a monoculture
Aug 28 18:53:21 <octav1a> I am not sure what you mean exactly, I am used to writing and using libraries to perform tasks so I don't need to reinvent the wheel.
Aug 28 18:53:32 <Agris> Of google chrome and reskinned chrome
Aug 28 18:53:52 <Agris> oct4v1a: the whatwg spec is bigger than a FUCKING POSIX
Aug 28 18:54:01 <octav1a> nkeck72, do you feel a difference between JS 'framework' and js library, or does that mean the same thing to you?
Aug 28 18:54:48 <Agris> oct4v1a: https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html
Aug 28 18:54:53 * Redwolf (~redwolf@216.198.166.120) has joined
Aug 28 18:55:22 <octav1a> I am used to the python mentality of just making a package for things which were annoying to figure out and publishing it somewhere others can use (pypi), and JS seems to have similar thoughts in terms of NPM, though it is quite muddled with server vs client side packages and such.
Aug 28 18:55:49 <nkeck72> they are different, a framework tries to make the learning curve smoother I guess, or maybe tries to reinvent everything, where a library is just a collection of routines for x task
Aug 28 18:56:27 <nkeck72> a framework tries to do everything, a library is focused
Aug 28 18:56:52 <Agris> Javascript is absolute garbage and should not exist
Aug 28 18:57:48 <Redwolf> I'm not sure that I'd say that JavaScript as a whole is garbage, but I think that it has gotten to the point that it is out of control.
Aug 28 18:57:59 <octav1a> Right, I am making just a library then, for one specific task
Aug 28 18:58:42 <Redwolf> What exactly is going on now? I left my computer for too long and it went to sleep for several minutes.
Aug 28 18:58:54 <Agris> Jabbashit is one of those ""features"" back from netscape days browsers used to compete with one another without any foresight or stop to think if they should do something or not
Aug 28 18:59:01 <octav1a> Agris, I agree with the last article you linked in general, however, I don't feel it is in my power to drastically change that ecosystem. Arguing it is more of a political move than actually being productive, and I care to develop software that people will actually enjoy using.
Aug 28 18:59:19 <nkeck72> As a language it is mildly frustrating because of all the boilerplate, but with the cluster of things that really overstretch what js is designed to handle, it just becomes annoying at best to me
Aug 28 18:59:43 <Agris> oct4v1a: when you continue feeding the insanity you are changing the ecosystem
Aug 28 18:59:44 <octav1a> I am just one developer afterall, if you want change it needs to come from greater powers
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