Patashu — 02/22/2023 8:34 PM
o/
Piskoli — 02/22/2023 8:43 PM
Image
Patashu — 02/22/2023 8:43 PM
:3c
Piskoli — 03/03/2023 4:09 PM
How're you?
Patashu — 03/03/2023 4:09 PM
Doing alright, got a Lancer game in 50m, how are you?
Piskoli — 03/03/2023 4:10 PM
Not too bad, just doing some light work on my projects.
Patashu — 03/03/2023 4:11 PM
Nice 👀
Piskoli — 03/03/2023 4:13 PM
Is SpinDizzy still accepting new people? It caught my interest, thought I'd give it a go.
Patashu — 03/03/2023 4:14 PM
Always, and we have daily activity
Piskoli — 03/03/2023 4:15 PM
Alright, thanks!
Piskoli — Today at 8:25 PM
Got some new pencils. Never before could so much info be crammed into such a small surface area.
Image
Lemme know if you're around, wanna pick your brain a bit if that's alright.
Patashu — Today at 8:31 PM
Ooo, runes...
Piskoli — Today at 8:31 PM
Yeah. It's a simple substitution cipher for english letters.
I have... about three of them, roughly
They go through changes every once in a while to see how much info I can cram into a small space.
This one, you'll notice, is composed of vertical lines with marks on them in specific places.
It's an attempt to optimize for space.
... I'm a bit of a nerd for this stuff, sorry if I'm gushing too much >..<"
I made another one that's optimized for legibility and compactness in a 3x3 grid for the sake of fitting as many as possible onto a display, ehe...
Patashu — Today at 8:35 PM
I don't know much about conlangs/ciphers, but I DO know it looks very pretty
Piskoli — Today at 8:35 PM
Aw, thanks.
Patashu — Today at 8:35 PM
I do love a good geometric/runic looking system
Fun to paint on things that way
Piskoli — Today at 8:37 PM
I just like testing things out and maximizing the use of resources when I can. And having my screen display weird symbol fonts is a bonus.
I wonder if I'll ever paint something...
Piskoli — Today at 8:49 PM
This is gonna be a bolt out of the blue, but... I'm actually saying hi on behalf of someone you knew about a year ago. I'm hoping I don't have to be just a proxy, but it makes things a bit awkward.
I have the sinking feeling that I won't be able to talk to you as just me if I say who it is. Dunno if we have much in common, anyway, but...
I just don't want it to overshadow me.
Patashu — Today at 8:59 PM
I am curious who it is! (And you can just be friends with me independently if you want to be.)
Piskoli — Today at 9:00 PM
Alright, I really appreciate that. Most of what I do is just staring into the depths of x86 manuals but I've got some little doodles and visual data to toss around every so often.
Piskoli — Today at 9:10 PM
Okay, so... Just gonna get to the point of it. You remember how a year ago, on SpinDizzy, a user got banished on Christmas Eve; Agris? Well, it's been a year, and he feels pretty bad about it. The e-mail made it clear that he's banished basically until he dies.
Course, it doesn't help that he's been kicked off of a few other places too since then. Turns out that Azure and Austin are in a lot of IRC chats and Fediverse relays.
Being unable to talk to them or about his situation makes it impossible for him to appeal or fix his situation, even if he were a decent poet.
Patashu — Today at 9:10 PM
Oh, yeah, trust me, Agris 100% deserves the ban. Complete lack of social awareness. I'm not surprised he still doesn't understand why he got banned.
Piskoli — Today at 9:12 PM
If you were gonna convince him of that, what would be the simplest, most concise way you could put it?
Patashu — Today at 9:13 PM
If I could convince him of it one of us would have by now.
I could probably convince YOU
Piskoli — Today at 9:13 PM
I dunno. I'm a pretty big pushover.
It's not that I wouldn't be convinced, but I'm like a ball of moss for what people think. I guess it's how I try to get along.
Patashu — Today at 9:15 PM
I can relate to that a lot, lmao
Piskoli — Today at 9:17 PM
I'd say that Agris having 'social awareness' as you put it would make him a better person, but I think it would be more accurate to say it just gets people more of what they want. There's plenty of socially adept people who are really rotten. Not that it woudn't be useful. And that's not to say that it's a sign of rotten-ness either...
Patashu — Today at 9:18 PM
Oh, and to be explicit, I'm not saying you should unfriend Agris. But I can make it very clear why Agris's ban isn't going to be lifted.
Piskoli — Today at 9:19 PM
It'd do me a favor if you could try, at least.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
Patashu — Today at 9:20 PM
Sure thing. (Dredging from my memory for this but I have receipts if you want me to verify anything.) So, it all started when Agris found out he was banned from all of Voksa's (another Spindizzian's) areas and Voksa was refusing to talk to him.
It turns out this is because Voksa (they/them pronouns) recognized Agris as someone they had had a falling out with and been pestered by before.
(To summarize that, Voksa and Agris used to talk on IRC, but once day Voksa didn't want to talk to Agris anymore, and made it very clear to Agris. But Agris continued to IM Voksa every day for a while after that, and Voksa was not impressed.)
Piskoli — Today at 9:23 PM
Gotcha.
Patashu — Today at 9:23 PM
Now! If it was JUST that, whatever. We permit Spindizzians to not like each other, it's inevitable.
It's what happens next (and there is a LOT of happens next) that sealed the deal.
So, Agris wants to talk to Voksa. He cannot let this go. He feels like he's being slighted, misrepresented, whatever. He HAS to clear his name. He contacts Ping (one of the wizards) and has a long discussion where he tells his side of the story. (From his perspective, Voksa never told him to stop contacting him, and the repeatedly sent messages were just something you have to do on IRC, like a ping check, to make sure someone is actually online.) He also, without either of us knowing, also contacted ME and had the same exact same conversation with me. Me and Ping found out afterwards when we shared our stories.
Piskoli — Today at 9:29 PM
Sounds like he was doing the rounds.
Patashu — Today at 9:30 PM
Yeah. So, to be explicit, I didn't make the decision to ban - that was up to Ping and the rest of the wizards - but I don't protest it, either. Basically, the social equivalent of protagonist syndrome. He even, as far as we can tell, made up sockpuppets to vouch for him when he wasn't getting his way.
Like, he invented a fictional person or two who sent in messages vouching for Agris
And they don't at all exist as far as we can tell??
Piskoli — Today at 9:31 PM
Yeah. That wouldn't look great.
I don't really need the receipts, but it wouldn't hurt to compare what I know with what you know.
Something tells me I know a lot less than what I think I do.
Patashu — Today at 9:32 PM
You know what Agris believes to be true, yeah. Ask away.
Piskoli — Today at 9:32 PM
I'm curious about the sockpuppets.
Patashu — Today at 9:33 PM
Ooh, I don't even know if I saved thatw part, let me check...
is checking his receipts drawer.
Piskoli — Today at 9:34 PM
Heh. The closest thing I have to that is a bunch of sticky notes with runes all over them and doodles of tired dragons.
Patashu — Today at 9:34 PM
Oh, I have one of them saved verbatim. (I forget if there were more. I think there were.)
Patashu — Today at 9:34 PM
I like this
Do you just want it verbatim? It's not like it's really leaking anything, Agris knows what he wrote in the past
Piskoli — Today at 9:35 PM
Sure.
Patashu — Today at 9:35 PM
(Also, if you DO happen to know this was written by an actual person and not just Agris again, that would be interesting to know.)
Agris (Today at 10:34:27PM) -- no subject
To Patashu: I am willing to say "I am sorry if I did anything to make you feel uncomfortable or to make you feel that I am harassing you" to Voksa
I want to make the following points:
1. Make clear I am not here to ruin anybody's day. If it ruins anybody's day me simply being here that is unfair.
2. make clear I am not here to Harass Voksa
3. whatever the problem is on the other platform, I am not bringing it to SpinDizzy
4. I have not done anthing on SpinDizzy to complement these claims against me.
5. This issue was only brough to forefront when I couldn't enter spaces on SpinDizzy when all I ever did was say "hello".
6. What happens ON SpinDizzy is the issue
7. Whatever the staff want to suggest to resolve the issue I am ears open to.
additionally, my friend wrote the following questions they wanted me to relay:
1 ) Not a threat
- Agris is not here to ruin anyone's day.
- He's not here or planning to break anyone's rules.
2 ) Wants to enjoy the space
- Agris wants to enjoy Spindizzy the same as he's done for as long as he's been here.
- He doesn't want drama. It's the last thing he wants.
3 ) Nature of the claim
- Voksa is claiming Agris will harass them as the basis of their actions. He won't. If he has, he will not further.
4 ) Nature of the actions
- Agris was, from my understanding, a neutral party in SpinDizzy at the time of the event.
- The ban on him is therefore an action on a neutral party (no provocation).
- It must, then, be okay (not in the legal sense but netiquette) to do any administrative action up to banning without provocation.
- New accounts do not have prior provocation. These actions can be taken, therefore, on any person based on name or whim.
5 ) Question of time
- Given (4), is this an indefinitely permissible action? Can it be repeated multiple times?
- How long will Agris have to wait (none, week, year, indefinite) as a neutral party to gain the access a new account has?
I was encouraged to join your MUCK by Agris shortly before these events and was excited to.
Given (4), I am not willing to join a MUCK that could potentially do this sort of thing to a brand spanking new user, without provocation.
I don't mind whatever else might happen or what judgments take place.
The way this was done has serious implications.
This isn't an isolated case, Agris is not special. That's entirely the problem and why it could so recklessly apply. Replace his name with anybody in the MUCK.
Kohrokho, Friend of Agris
*Done*
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message.txt
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Piskoli — Today at 9:38 PM
Would whether or not it's a sockpuppet change much?
Patashu — Today at 9:38 PM
Honestly, probably not
Because it'd still be a ban evasion attempt
Piskoli — Today at 9:39 PM
I take it you don't think highly of the message there.
Patashu — Today at 9:39 PM
Nope, and I had a conversation with Ping where Ping agreed. Actually I didn't even read it for a while when I got it because I was like 'ughhh I need too much emotional energy for this shit' lmao
Piskoli — Today at 9:41 PM
What happened after that?
Assuming he wasn't already under the bridge at this point.
Patashu — Today at 9:43 PM
Agris's ban was soon after this
Also, Agris tried to ban evade multiple times after being banned. Trying to connect as guests and get a character under a new name or just communicate with people directly
It actually lead to us having the guest system turned off for a long time because we didn't have enough technical manpower to 'have guests but stop Agris'
Which sucked
Piskoli — Today at 9:45 PM
Sounds to me like that quote was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Patashu — Today at 9:45 PM
I actually think it was already planned
(but it didn't help, in any case)
Piskoli — Today at 9:46 PM
Was there any point where you kinda went 'yep, that's it'?
Patashu — Today at 9:48 PM
For me it was when Agris broke down crying and demanding to speak with me over the phone because I pushed back even slightly on his story, lol
After that I was like 'yeah, okay, this is not being resolved'
(I also literally had to leave to go have a family lunch the moment that happened, so it was good comedic timing)
Piskoli — Today at 9:48 PM
Not much of a phone person, huh.
Patashu — Today at 9:49 PM
I mean I don't like talking on the phone no, but I have bad experiences with the kind of person who's like 'no you don't understand, talk to me for real' when they have a dispute in text
Piskoli — Today at 9:51 PM
I'm not much of a person for words, either, when it comes to arguments. But again, ball of moss.
Patashu — Today at 9:52 PM
I hate arguing, I like logic.
If that makes sense.
Piskoli — Today at 9:53 PM
I don't like arguing much either.
You know my position, more or less. Any advice on what I should do? I mean, I'm pretty close friends with this guy.
Patashu — Today at 9:55 PM
Like I said, you don't have to change anything. I'm just letting you know that Agris isn't getting unbanned and there's nothing you can do to help so you don't throw energy into a black hole chasing an impossibility.
Piskoli — Today at 9:56 PM
I mean, more on the end of, if Agris does have social issues, do you have any ideas on what I can do about that?
Patashu — Today at 9:56 PM
If I could fix it it would be fixed by now! So, no ideas there.
Piskoli — Today at 9:56 PM
Granted, I'm sure if you had them you might have used them yourself.
Patashu — Today at 9:57 PM
Agris has to decide there even is a problem then decide to try and change it, and only Agris can do that.
Piskoli — Today at 9:57 PM
Did you try anything before you came to that conclusion? Might save me some time.
Patashu — Today at 9:58 PM
Like I said, I got a total breakdown the moment I made even a slightest suggestion Agris might be in the wrong. I had no desire to try anything else after that. You're on your own, if you want to do anything at all.
Piskoli — Today at 9:58 PM
Welp. I'm in for some fun then.
Patashu — Today at 9:59 PM
Or not! You don't have to do anything.
Piskoli — Today at 10:00 PM
I've been told that a lot.
Patashu — Today at 10:00 PM
grins
You've been told it a lot because it's often true.
It can be useful to spend energy on relationships and get benefits out of them in return. But make sure you ARE getting something out of them.
Piskoli — Today at 10:01 PM
Do you have a receipt on the IRC pinging thing? I'm a bit curious about that. I don't really know how IRC works that well.
Most of the benefits I get out of life are things that nobody else is around to do with me or care about, as isolating as that sounds.
Patashu — Today at 10:01 PM
That's a mood sometimes.
Piskoli — Today at 10:01 PM
And most of them are some degree of boring.
Patashu — Today at 10:01 PM
I think that's this?
Agris pages, "they told ping that i was spamming them 'test' a bunch of times after that. That isn't true either. IRC doesn't have presence so when you want to see when someone's online you have to send something to them and get a error from the server saying the nick doesn't exist" to you.
Piskoli — Today at 10:02 PM
Did anyone respond to that or is it more of a common knowledge thing, like "Yeah, that's not how IRC works"?
Patashu — Today at 10:03 PM
I just took Agris at his word, because even if it's true, Agris doesn't ACTUALLY dispute that he sent 'test' a lot :B
So it's like, cool, you admit it then
Piskoli — Today at 10:03 PM
I see.
Patashu — Today at 10:03 PM
If he didn't even need to do that then it's even funnier
Piskoli — Today at 10:03 PM
Would the person have received it if their nick wasn't there?
Patashu — Today at 10:04 PM
So the way IRC works (reconstructing it from Agris's description which I THINK is correct, I've used IRC before too) is that there's no way to query an IRC server and go 'who's connected to the server?'. You have to query the IRC server 'send username X message Y' and then the server goes 'done' or 'oops, they're not online'. (There ARE lists of people if you go into chatrooms, but then you need to know what chatrooms they're in and not be banned from them.)
Piskoli — Today at 10:07 PM
I see.
Did Voksa ever say verbatim what Agris did?
Patashu — Today at 10:09 PM
Yes, so both me and Ping know.
Piskoli — Today at 10:09 PM
I'm guessing they didn't run around yelling it into the hills.
Patashu — Today at 10:10 PM
Yeah.
Piskoli — Today at 10:11 PM
I'd also hazard a guess that Voksa or anyone who knows about this from your perspective isn't keen on hanging around Agris any time soon.
At least from their own conclusions.
Patashu — Today at 10:12 PM
I think that's all I have to say on the subject, in any case. I'm not especially interested in talking about this forever, just giving you a nudge in the right (from my perspective) direction.
Piskoli — Today at 10:12 PM
I appreciate the nudge.
Patashu — Today at 10:13 PM
thumbs up
Piskoli — Today at 10:13 PM
weak grin
I'll probably be fine.
Patashu — Today at 10:13 PM
grin
Alright.