20221115-FreeNode-Agris-Ely-Sierra

File: <20221115-FreeNode-Agris-Ely-Sierra>

15 Nov 2022 21:32 in discussion@conference.nuegia.net

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sierra
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[21:32:56]
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hello
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agris
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[21:32:58]
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hi
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* sierra hugs
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[21:32:58]
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agris
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[21:33:02]
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it works now
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hi ely
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sierra
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[21:33:37]
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hi ely
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* sierra hugs
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[21:33:39]
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how are you feeling?
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agris
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[21:33:58]
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me?
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sierra
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[21:34:06]
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both
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agris
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[21:34:11]
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tense
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but i'm ok
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sierra
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[21:34:54]
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ely: you?
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sierra
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[21:37:26]
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we just want to know more about what happened with jae and your conversation with cheapie

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agris
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[21:38:17]
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i don't think they are here
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agris
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[21:41:47]
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thanks for trying sierra
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* sierra hugs agris
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[21:42:32]
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* agris hugs back
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[21:42:41]
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[21:49:43]
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you two should do lewd things u/w/u
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sierra
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[21:53:49]
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Elysian the Kitsune: nice nick
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[21:54:49]
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wdym nice nick?
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sierra
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[21:55:09]
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It sound powerful to say Elysian the Kitsune

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agris
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[21:55:21]
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who is this?
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[21:55:37]
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i see
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sierra
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[21:55:42]
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agris: ely
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the kitsune
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agris
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[21:55:49]
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oh
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[21:55:50]
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agris this is deez
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agris
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[21:56:06]
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> we just want to know more about what happened with jae and your conversation with cheapie

if you could share logs of your conversation with cheapie and jae

I'm also here to answer questions you might have

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[21:56:35]
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i never contacted jae
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but before i share information, i want to be promised something

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sierra
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[21:59:07]
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that we don't ban you?
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[21:59:21]
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yes, that
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agris
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[21:59:45]
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yeah. i understand you said some reactionary things when you thought i intentionally banned you

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[21:59:53]
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all of my opions that will be shared will be unbiased, and will not be affected by current relationships

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agris
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[21:59:55]
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sorry for the misunderstanding
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:00:01]
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it's okay
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agris
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[22:00:09]
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i didn't know that was you
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:02:22]
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it's fine
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agris
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[22:05:42]
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yes i can promise you that
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please go ahead
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:06:23]
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ok let me pull up the chat logs
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ok, so agris
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you remember when cheapie banned you on freenode?

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agris
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[22:07:27]
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not the exact date it was a while ago
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:08:24]
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well, you said that cheapie decided to randomly bully you, right?

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agris
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[22:09:19]
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are you going to share the log?
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:09:41]
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well
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https://gist.githubusercontent.com/cheapie/cddfe5aa1a33303329707c958611228c/raw/0674ab8aa68384a01ef9f2263e0a9e5c379c9700/gistfile1.txt

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i found this
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> I also took a look at the logs from old ##furry on freenode and I see that I am the one that banned him from there (for being a troll), although as I mentioned previously I'm not sure if he was ever actually banned from the one here.

so it seems you are NOT banned on libera

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agris
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[22:12:08]
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Elysian the Kitsune, I'm asking for your log with cheapie

also i'm curious what happens after that log  ends

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:14:01]
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this conversation took place on matrix
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i do not share whole matrix chat logs
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sorry
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but i can summarize my findings
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agris
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[22:14:21]
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no
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share the log please
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you said you would
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that is what we agreed upon
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sierra
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[22:15:17]
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Elysian the Kitsune: can you share part of the logs?

or just take a screenshot of the important parts

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:15:34]
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i am trying to export the logs right now

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sierra
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[22:15:46]
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ok
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:17:34]
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https://upload.yax.im/upload/sKIIhAa-KWpKPyJa/matrix%20-%20cheapie%20-%20Chat%20Export%20-%202022-11-16T06-16-32.313Z.txt

https://upload.yax.im/upload/sKIIhAa-KWpKPyJa/matrix - cheapie - Chat Export - 2022-11-16T06-16-32.313Z.txt

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agris
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[22:18:43]
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thankyou ely
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:18:48]
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np
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agris
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[22:18:50]
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give me a minute to read this
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:18:54]
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ok
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agris
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[22:22:19]
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Ely
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:22:37]
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yes?
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agris
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[22:22:41]
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The log of freenode that cheapie provided does not demonstrate that I was a "troll"

What it demonstrates is me having a discussion with someone about javascript and web browser and 3d demos

What it demonstrates is me having a discussion with someone about javascript and web browser and 3d demos

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:23:45]
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do you want the good news or the bad news first?

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agris
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[22:23:50]
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and then cheapie butting in and interupting that discussion from which they were not even a part of

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permanant ban
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:25:18]
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wdym permaban?
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agris
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[22:25:33]
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permanantly banned
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to discussion no nothing
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:26:07]
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i thought i was promised to not be banned

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agris
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[22:26:19]
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no i'm saying that's what cheapie did to me

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it's right there in the log see?
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:26:26]
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oh
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i see
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agris
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[22:27:04]
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also there has been a group of stalkers going around to literally every place on the internet I hung out on and getting me banned

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threatening my friends
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telling them not to talk to me or they'll prevent them  from being able to talk to their other friends

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spreading defamatory rumors about me
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:27:55]
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i will need proof of this
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before i can discuss that further
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agris
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[22:28:47]
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I'm not ready to release all of those details at this time, as it may put me or some of my friends at risk for they safety

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:29:09]
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i see
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agris
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[22:29:14]
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what I do release I need to discuss it to determine  if it is safe to

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eventually it will be fully release
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eventually it will be fully released, but until then if you have a specific and finite thing you need proof of I may be able to provide that

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:30:12]
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well, untill i can access those details, i am sorry but i might not be as much help to you

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agris
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[22:30:49]
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that's ok. I wasn't under the expectation that you'd be able to help me anyways.

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I'll see what I can share with you
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:35:37]
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thank you
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anyways, i'm thinking of settling down for the night

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let's continue with this tomorrow
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* sierra hugs ely
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[22:38:47]
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thankyou for your help
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agris
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[22:39:16]
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distaza says he has something he wants to say on that

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sierra, can you get ely back?
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sierra
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[22:40:09]
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ely is here
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I think
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agris
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[22:40:21]
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> Elysian the Kitsune has left
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> [22:38:23]
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sierra
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[22:40:31]
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oh
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agris
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[22:41:09]
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ely
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hold on a minute distaza is joining
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:41:33]
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i haven't reloaded blabber so it doesn't know that this room is in my bookmarks

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oh ok
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agris
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[22:41:47]
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there is something we can share with you now safely

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:42:15]
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ok, go ahead
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distaza
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[22:42:36]
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Hey, just read the log you provided, ely

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:43:04]
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ok
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distaza
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[22:43:28]
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Just wanna say, it's one thing to have a talk with someone about their attitude, or voice a concern, or even take someone aside for a moment and give them an ultimatum.

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:43:45]
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ok
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distaza
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[22:43:46]
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That's, in my opinion, a necessity of good moderation practices.

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:43:56]
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i see
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distaza
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[22:43:59]
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Y'know, treating people like, well, people.

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:44:15]
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agreed
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distaza
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[22:44:24]
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Note that this example is one-and-done. The log provided was not provided to me. It was not provided to Agris.

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His ban reason is 'Enough'.
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Thee was no discussion.
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:44:48]
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actually
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distaza
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[22:44:49]
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There wasn't even a clear impetus.
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Unless I'm mistaken...
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Which, if I am, please do corect me. I want to know as much as possible so that I can prevent misunderstandings.

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:45:50]
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oh wait, agris was banned
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distaza
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[22:45:58]
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Yeah.
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:46:04]
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i did not notfice the mode change
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distaza
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[22:46:13]
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They didn't even tell you, huh?
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agris
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[22:47:01]
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+b means ban
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:47:03]
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nono, i looked over it
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agris
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[22:47:06]
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irc is clunky
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:47:09]
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yeah, i know
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> Aug 28 18:50:54 <Agris>    Your project is going to turn out unreliable, bloated, and is not going to have any longevity at all. It's also going to suck of gigabytes of ram and rev up cpu cores if you decide to build graphics in a web browser

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this raises concerns
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agris
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[22:48:14]
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what concerns? Digital archival? Accessibility?

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distaza
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[22:48:18]
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Sure, but that's something that can be debated civilly, not with a hammer to a nail attitude. I'd argue it's the hammer to nail attitude that a ban is supposed to protect -against-, isn't it?

(From a technical perspective, it's blunt, but there are some points to be made about JS and being hog-tied to Chromium. But I digress.)

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agris
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[22:49:34]
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especially 3D gaphics demos
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*graphics
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:50:12]
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still
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distaza
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[22:50:16]
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The problem isn't whether or not the point is valid, or even imo whether the tone was polite or not in that quip, but that that one line is all it takes to just one-and-done boot a person, any person, from a chat, without discussion, recourse, anything.

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:50:23]
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that line seems really agressive
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distaza
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[22:50:25]
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Not even a reason bit a glib one-liner!
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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:50:48]
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listen, im gonna call it a night
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agris
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[22:50:53]
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for a person who's been a member of a chat for years

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:50:57]
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i'm really tired
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distaza
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[22:51:02]
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Not even a reason but a glib one-liner!
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That's understandable - it's a long night for me, too.

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agris
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[22:51:28]
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anyways, hopefully that gives you what you needed ely

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Elysian the Kitsune
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[22:51:28]
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thank you
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good night
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agris
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[22:51:35]
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thank you for sharing the logs too ely
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goodnighjt
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sierra
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[22:51:48]
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goodnight kitsunes
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agris
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[22:51:59]
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sierra <3
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* sierra hugs Elysian the Kitsune's gut and hugs agris

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[22:52:01]
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agris
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[22:52:16]
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also ely
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distaza
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[22:52:22]
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I don't mean to diminish your take on it either, you have a point about bluntness, Elysian the Kitsune, but notwithstanding, an admin should be able to act within reason, which means talking to people before, or even after, they ban.

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agris
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[22:52:25]
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something for you to keep in  mind
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distaza
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[22:52:34]
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This isnt rocket science, it's transparency.

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agris
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[22:52:43]
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that could happen to you too in anything cheapie is an admin of

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and that will be the  end of it.
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cheapie still hasn't spoken a single word to me since that ban

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your just gone
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distaza
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[23:11:45]
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Parting thought, ely, so that I don't forget in the morning: you should ask your acquaintance cheapie if they would repeat the actions they did to Agris to someone else exactly, under the same circumstances.