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Subject: Re: Appeal
From: Austin Dern <austin@spindizzy.org>
In-Reply-To: <20220123190202.289d21b0@viridi.lan>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:36:01 -0500
Cc: wizzes@spindizzy.org
Message-Id: <BB978969-C157-403A-9F8F-B1D3D1AFFA39@spindizzy.org>
References: <890054E0-90AE-4BA6-8FBF-FC85AA79CCF0@spindizzy.org>
<20220123190202.289d21b0@viridi.lan>
To: agris@nuegia.net
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Hello,
We have received this and will read and consider it. This should not be taken as a promise to change any decisions; it is only a declaration that we will give it thought.
Austin Dern
> On Jan 23, 2022, at 10:02 PM, agris@nuegia.net wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 23:50:26 -0500
> Austin Dern <austin@spindizzy.org> wrote:
>
>> Agris,
>>
>> There are rooms on SpinDizzy that are accessible only to a
>> few people on a short, specific list. This is normal on SpinDizzy.
>> Not everything is public. People have and should have private rooms.
>> Your specific interest in Voksa's rooms coincides with a conflict
>> with Voksa that began outside SpinDizzy. That conflict has no
>> bearing on whether Voksa can decide who can enter his rooms.
>> Further, you have shown no concern over any of the large number of
>> *other* rooms you don't have access to. To focus only on Voksa's
>> establishes beyond doubt that the real problem is your relationship
>> with Voksa, and not access to his rooms. Your pagemails to Patashu
>> and Ping, and several hours of conversation with Ping, make clear you
>> believe you can pester people into getting your way. Further that
>> you believe you can distract from the fundamental issue by focusing
>> on access to Voksa's rooms. In this light, your repeated insistence
>> on forcing entry into Voksa's personal rooms constitutes ongoing
>> harassment of him. You are banned from SpinDizzy. Because you have
>> already repeatedly attempted to circumvent this suspension by
>> attempting to regain access without permission, it is not temporary.
>> The Wizards, SpinDizzy
>>
>>
>
> Thank you for explaining your reasoning and how you came to that
> conclusion. I would like to appeal this judgement under the grounds
> that this judgement was done improperly. This was done behind closed
> doors, without the opportunity for me to defend myself or contest
> untrue statements. There is also a lack of evidence supporting the
> claims against and a poor understanding of events and the whole
> situation really.
>
> Firstly I want to ask if you actually read the pagemail you are
> referring to because I feel that if you had, it would undermine a lot
> of the conclusions that you have jumped to. I will quote it here:
>
>
>> To Patashu: I am willing to say "I am sorry if I did anything to make
>> you feel uncomfortable or to make you feel that I am harassing you" to
>> Voksa
>>
>> I want to make the following points:
>>
>> 1. Make clear I am not here to ruin anybody's day. If it ruins
>> anybody's day me simply being here that is unfair.
>>
>> 2. make clear I am not here to Harass Voksa
>>
>> 3. whatever the problem is on the other platform, I am not bringing it
>> to SpinDizzy
>>
>> 4. I have not done anthing on SpinDizzy to complement these claims
>> against me.
>>
>> 5. This issue was only brough to forefront when I couldn't enter spaces
>> on SpinDizzy when all I ever did was say "hello".
>>
>> 6. What happens ON SpinDizzy is the issue
>>
>> 7. Whatever the staff want to suggest to resolve the issue I am ears
>> open to.
>>
>>
>>
>> additionally, my friend wrote the following questions they wanted me to
>> relay:
>>
>> 1 ) Not a threat
>> - Agris is not here to ruin anyone's day.
>> - He's not here or planning to break anyone's rules.
>>
>> 2 ) Wants to enjoy the space
>> - Agris wants to enjoy Spindizzy the same as he's done for as long as
>> he's been here.
>> - He doesn't want drama. It's the last thing he wants.
>>
>> 3 ) Nature of the claim
>> - Voksa is claiming Agris will harass them as the basis of their
>> actions. He won't. If he has, he will not further.
>>
>> 4 ) Nature of the actions
>> - Agris was, from my understanding, a neutral party in SpinDizzy at the
>> time of the event.
>> - The ban on him is therefore an action on a neutral party (no
>> provocation).
>> - It must, then, be okay (not in the legal sense but netiquette) to do
>> any administrative action up to banning without provocation.
>> - New accounts do not have prior provocation. These actions can be
>> taken, therefore, on any person based on name or whim.
>>
>> 5 ) Question of time
>> - Given (4), is this an indefinitely permissible action? Can it be
>> repeated multiple times?
>> - How long will Agris have to wait (none, week, year, indefinite) as a
>> neutral party to gain the access a new account has?
>>
>> I was encouraged to join your MUCK by Agris shortly before these events
>> and was excited to. Given (4), I am not willing to join a MUCK that
>> could potentially do this sort of thing to a brand spanking new user,
>> without provocation.
>>
>> I don't mind whatever else might happen or what judgments take place.
>>
>> The way this was done has serious implications.
>>
>> This isn't an isolated case, Agris is not special. That's entirely the
>> problem and why it could so recklessly apply. Replace his name with
>> anybody in the MUCK.
>>
>> Kohrokho, Friend of Agris
>
> I don't understand how this can be construed as so.
>
> I want to be specific about the room being referred to. It was
> not a private room. The room I am referring to "The Observatory". The
> Observatory has no such whitelist/allowlist that you seem to be
> insinuating on. It is a blacklist/denylist. It is also listed in the
> 'whereare' command which from my understanding lists public
> congregation locations. The Observatory is also listed in public
> bulletin boards using the 'rpread' command as a location for public
> gathering events, such the following log states:
>
>
>> From: Voksa
>> On: 2021-12-31 11:07:26
>> This post will expire on: 2022-01-30 11:07:26 -- 20 days and 21 hours
>> from now. Subject: Cosmic New Years
>>
>> In an event of profound astronomical unlikelihood, the new years of
>> planetary calendars across the galaxy have aligned! You may have other
>> festivities to attend to, but if not, please join me in the
>> observatory's telescope dome to celebrate the turning of the worlds.
>> Surely there won't be any TEN THOUSAND YEAR CURSES unsealed.
>>
>> There will be snacks.
>>
>> Don't worry, I didn't choose the snacks myself.
>>
>> Telescope dome: luge n10 w3, In, T
>> Vaguely around server midnight on new years, and maybe a few hours
>> before and after.
>>
>> Done.
>
>
> I was even invited by several people to attend. In addition to that,
> The Observatory being a primary map location (N10 W3) on the main map.
> We aren't talking about some obscure hidden location behind a bunch of
> doors. This is something with primary coordinates. It is also pinned to
> the wa list along side all the other public meeting places.
>
>
>> Further, you have shown no concern over any of the large number of
>> *other* rooms you don't have access to.
> I was not aware of any other "rooms" during my exploration from which I
> did not have access to. What rooms are you referring to?
>
> I sent that earlier quoted email to Ping and Patashu. I connected and
> messaged Ping if their stuff in storage was ok, because they had
> explained in the previous night there was a fire.
>
> Ping responded by telling me they just got back from dinner and "You
> are no longer welcome on SpinDizzy". And that I would be imminently
> disconnected while they look for the command, which they did.
>
> Ping did not explain a reason for the ban and their language gave me
> the understanding it was permanent. I did reconnect as a guest a
> few times however the purpose of that was to exchange contact
> information with acquaintances and people whom I was starting to build
> friendships with. Also, to explain what was going on to them. I made
> that clear. It is unfair to hold that against me, I am only human. The
> way in which Ping did that was unreasonable. What would you do if you
> were in that situation? Not try to re-establish contact with and reach
> out to your friends? People are not robots. Other people's relationships
> are not something you can just destroy like that.
>
> I believe and this is just one of many reasons that Ping has it out for
> me.
>
> Not only that but Ping's actions and false statements to others during
> this time destroyed my reputation and ostracized me. To the point some
> people whom I previously talked to refused to exchange contact
> information with me because they "trust Ping". Ping abusing their
> community status and trust.
>
> I connected one day, asked Ping if they got my letter, and the only
> thing I was told was:
>
>> Ping pages, "Hi. I just got back from dinner, or I'd have already taken
>> care of this, but I got your pagemail from earlier, and also spoke with
>> Patashu about the situation." to you.
>
>> Ping pages, "You are no longer welcome on Spindizzy." to you.
>
>> You page, "what?" to Ping.
>
>> Ping pages, "Just what I said. I'll send you an email once I've written
>> it, and you're welcome to disconnect now or wait until I figure out the
>> appropriate commands to do it myself, but you are no longer welcome
>> here." to you.
>
> I was not given a reasoning for the ban. I was not given a duration of
> the ban. I was not given a 'fair shake'. That was it. Zero to one
> hundred.
>
> I was never told there was a 'suspension' of any sort until much later
> talking to Austin. Now your telling me i'm banned for reconnecting? You
> can't just retroactively make up new rules now and have them apply to
> the past. That's called a Ex post facto judgement. How is that fair?
> Not only that but then you go and ban my friends from the muck too when
> they get curious? What's up with that? Why? What did they do?
>
> Anyways, when Ping did they were already spreading untrue rumors about
> me and when that happened, well, that was all the assurance they
> needed. Ping is a wizard; surely if they booted Agris that must mean
> something is going on right? You'd think anyways. =(
>
> I never did anything to Voksa. I never harassed them. Not on spindizzy.
> Not off spindizzy. The only thing I did is walk in and say
> "Hello!". And I've got logs of that too.
>
> Speaking of logs, it was very difficult for me to write this letter and
> begin to even address the accusations that were made against me,
> non sequiturs, and the way they were. The lack of communication and the
> lack of information which was withheld from me. I'm willing to go over
> this but can you please at least give me a fair shake and show me the
> logs, what your reasoning was, and actual evidence or proof of something
> I did wrong so I can talk about that? Otherwise you asking me to prove
> my innocence, rather than proving guilty. That's not fair and
> demonstrates a clear bias against me.
>
> Look, I'm not trying to put anyone on blast here. All I want, all I
> ever wanted was to be given a fair shake. It says so right in your AUP.
> I'm not here to get Voksa in trouble. I'm not here to throw Ping under
> the bus. It's to resolve conflict. I just want to be treated fairly. If
> someone doesn't want to talk to me that's fine but you need to figure
> out a way to do it without dragging me through the mud.
>
> When you ostracize people like that it has a social effect. Your you
> outright banish people from events or boot them our of community
> servers it gives people bad stigmas of that person.
>
> If there's any doubt about that effect, not just on me, but on any of
> my friends who might stop by, sign in as a guest and talk to anyone in
> the server about Agris. You might even get banned by Ping, even just
> off the bat, for being related to me. I'm sure that you'll see at least
> one not-so-nice remark. This is the power administration has over social
> relationships and it's not to be overlooked. It's a frightening power.
>
> You have something really special here. I really liked the community
> here and loved the kind of people I met. I go on
> http://www.spindizzy.org/nwp/art/ and I see all that fantastic
> close-knit community art and I think, wow. I want to be a part of that.
>
> I still do want to be a part of that, but you've given me a hell of a
> welcome =(. It's really a shame that people in such a niche have to be
> terrible to each other.
>
> Agris
>
>
> Please reply to this message so I know it was received.